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	<title>Comments for holyhandgrenade.org</title>
	<atom:link href="http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog</link>
	<description>System administration from the trenches.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:10:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Recovering a deleted logical drive on an IBM Midrange Storage SAN by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/2010/07/recovering-a-deleted-logical-drive-on-an-ibm-midrange-storage-san/comment-page-1/#comment-818</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/?p=655#comment-818</guid>
		<description>Glad to hear everything worked out, and wow, I guess it was nice timing writing up this article. Can I ask why Dell&#039;s storage specialists were involved with the IBM SAN instead of IBM&#039;s own engineers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to hear everything worked out, and wow, I guess it was nice timing writing up this article. Can I ask why Dell&#8217;s storage specialists were involved with the IBM SAN instead of IBM&#8217;s own engineers?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Recovering a deleted logical drive on an IBM Midrange Storage SAN by rob.wolfe</title>
		<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/2010/07/recovering-a-deleted-logical-drive-on-an-ibm-midrange-storage-san/comment-page-1/#comment-814</link>
		<dc:creator>rob.wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/?p=655#comment-814</guid>
		<description>hi, thanks for posting this, i was able to recover a mission-critical 5.5T virtualdisk that dell storage specialists were suggesting my department pay through the nose to recover with their suggested recovery services.

probably saved our department the equivalent cost of a shiny new sports car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi, thanks for posting this, i was able to recover a mission-critical 5.5T virtualdisk that dell storage specialists were suggesting my department pay through the nose to recover with their suggested recovery services.</p>
<p>probably saved our department the equivalent cost of a shiny new sports car.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Nagios plugin: check_sa.pl by Brian</title>
		<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/2009/11/nagios-plugin-check_sa-pl/comment-page-1/#comment-750</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/?p=410#comment-750</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d suggest adding something like --sadf-options. If I want to use this to gather cpu information, and only for a summary of all cpu&#039;s then the command to run would be:
./check_sa.pl -i -C %user -C %nice -C %system -C %iowait -C %idle --sa-log-dir=/var/log/sa --sadf-options -u

Or all cpu&#039;s:
./check_sa.pl -i -C %user -C %nice -C %system -C %iowait -C %idle --sa-log-dir=/var/log/sa --sadf-options &quot;-P ALL -u&quot;

Etc.

The advantage of this is that you significantly increase the speed of the check. With just -u it is &#039;real    0m0.088s&#039;, and -u -P ALL it would be &#039;real    0m0.191s&#039;. With -A it is &#039;real    0m0.356s&#039;. When checking 3000+ servers every little bit helps :).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d suggest adding something like &#8211;sadf-options. If I want to use this to gather cpu information, and only for a summary of all cpu&#8217;s then the command to run would be:<br />
./check_sa.pl -i -C %user -C %nice -C %system -C %iowait -C %idle &#8211;sa-log-dir=/var/log/sa &#8211;sadf-options -u</p>
<p>Or all cpu&#8217;s:<br />
./check_sa.pl -i -C %user -C %nice -C %system -C %iowait -C %idle &#8211;sa-log-dir=/var/log/sa &#8211;sadf-options &#8220;-P ALL -u&#8221;</p>
<p>Etc.</p>
<p>The advantage of this is that you significantly increase the speed of the check. With just -u it is &#8216;real    0m0.088s&#8217;, and -u -P ALL it would be &#8216;real    0m0.191s&#8217;. With -A it is &#8216;real    0m0.356s&#8217;. When checking 3000+ servers every little bit helps <img src='http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>Comment on Linux vs. Solaris packaging: it&#8217;s a philosophical thing by Joshua Rodman</title>
		<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/2009/12/linux-vs-solaris-packaging-its-a-philosophical-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-727</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Rodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 23:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/?p=462#comment-727</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve just shown why the Linux approach is the right one.

On Linux, you can choose just how much you want to maintain yourself vs let the system maintain, which means you can minimize this type of pain.

Note that I have supported various commercial packages on Debian systems without a problem either.  Debian doesn&#039;t remove old sos on upgrade unless requested, so things don&#039;t break, even across major upgrades, even when they have very odd binary dependencies.  I have libc5 gcc 2.8-specific C++ x86 binaries that still work, no effort required.

Contraily, with a system like FreeBSD or Solaris, the pain is typically entirely upon the local administrator to deal with the most recent apache problem. 

I can&#039;t tell you how many times as a commercial software vendor I&#039;ve had to drop everything to deal with some major incompatability introduced by a minor update from a proprietary unix vendor, even though they insist that they&#039;re always ABI compatible.  Typically these are situations where you can claim the external symbol signatures haven&#039;t changed, even when the behavior, location, environment variables, or other aspects have.

As a proprietary software vendor it is easier to support Linux systems than any other unix.  That includes all the flavors.  Really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve just shown why the Linux approach is the right one.</p>
<p>On Linux, you can choose just how much you want to maintain yourself vs let the system maintain, which means you can minimize this type of pain.</p>
<p>Note that I have supported various commercial packages on Debian systems without a problem either.  Debian doesn&#8217;t remove old sos on upgrade unless requested, so things don&#8217;t break, even across major upgrades, even when they have very odd binary dependencies.  I have libc5 gcc 2.8-specific C++ x86 binaries that still work, no effort required.</p>
<p>Contraily, with a system like FreeBSD or Solaris, the pain is typically entirely upon the local administrator to deal with the most recent apache problem. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell you how many times as a commercial software vendor I&#8217;ve had to drop everything to deal with some major incompatability introduced by a minor update from a proprietary unix vendor, even though they insist that they&#8217;re always ABI compatible.  Typically these are situations where you can claim the external symbol signatures haven&#8217;t changed, even when the behavior, location, environment variables, or other aspects have.</p>
<p>As a proprietary software vendor it is easier to support Linux systems than any other unix.  That includes all the flavors.  Really.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Linux vs. Solaris packaging: it&#8217;s a philosophical thing by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/2009/12/linux-vs-solaris-packaging-its-a-philosophical-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-610</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/?p=462#comment-610</guid>
		<description>You seem to be under the impression that I&#039;m arguing with your viewpoint here. Quite the contrary -- I think that in an ideal world, these kinds of upgrades should be really trivial. And if you don&#039;t run custom-compiled local versions of software, and if you don&#039;t run proprietary software (especially the &quot;enterprise&quot; variant) that&#039;s frightfully specific about its linked sonames, they stay really trivial. Debian has shown remarkable ability, probably more than any other Linux distribution, in being able to manage these kinds of upgrades.

If everything you run comes from a package that&#039;s tested by the vendor, and you&#039;re upgrading from one compatible package ecosystem to another, and your config file formats don&#039;t change, your upgrade should work just fine (though results may vary in the wonderfully fragile world of Red Hat). That, however, has absolutely nothing to do with the argument, because that&#039;s simply not the way that the world of proprietary software on commercial UNIX distributions works. The vendors don&#039;t run in lock-step with your operating system, and they don&#039;t provide special repositories so that the Etch version of their software is replaced with the Lenny version when you upgrade. (In fact, you&#039;re remarkably lucky if they even support anything besides Red Hat or SUSE at all.)

As a Debian guy, you&#039;re probably more used to the FOSS side of the spectrum, so let me just use a generic example from that arena. Say that for whatever reason, you&#039;ve compiled a local version of PHP against OpenLDAP 2.3, and your distribution decides it wants to start using OpenLDAP 2.4&#039;s ABI/soname-incompatible client libraries instead. You upgrade, and suddenly you&#039;ve introduced a problem for yourself if you haven&#039;t made a habit of specifically linking against a ton of your own manually-tracked dependencies, because your libldap2-3.so.0 happens to not exist anymore. You now need to hunt down and re-link all of your dependencies, some of which may not be apparent until certain edge cases during run-time are encountered and a handful of DSO&#039;s are loaded on demand and your programs begin mysteriously crashing because they&#039;re trying to call externs that don&#039;t actually exist.

Thankfully, we haven&#039;t had ABI changes the size of libc5-&gt;libc6 in many years, but it&#039;s absolutely conceivable that an upgrade can break a great many things if you rely on the fact that system libraries are going to stay one particular ABI version between releases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You seem to be under the impression that I&#8217;m arguing with your viewpoint here. Quite the contrary &#8212; I think that in an ideal world, these kinds of upgrades should be really trivial. And if you don&#8217;t run custom-compiled local versions of software, and if you don&#8217;t run proprietary software (especially the &#8220;enterprise&#8221; variant) that&#8217;s frightfully specific about its linked sonames, they stay really trivial. Debian has shown remarkable ability, probably more than any other Linux distribution, in being able to manage these kinds of upgrades.</p>
<p>If everything you run comes from a package that&#8217;s tested by the vendor, and you&#8217;re upgrading from one compatible package ecosystem to another, and your config file formats don&#8217;t change, your upgrade should work just fine (though results may vary in the wonderfully fragile world of Red Hat). That, however, has absolutely nothing to do with the argument, because that&#8217;s simply not the way that the world of proprietary software on commercial UNIX distributions works. The vendors don&#8217;t run in lock-step with your operating system, and they don&#8217;t provide special repositories so that the Etch version of their software is replaced with the Lenny version when you upgrade. (In fact, you&#8217;re remarkably lucky if they even support anything besides Red Hat or SUSE at all.)</p>
<p>As a Debian guy, you&#8217;re probably more used to the FOSS side of the spectrum, so let me just use a generic example from that arena. Say that for whatever reason, you&#8217;ve compiled a local version of PHP against OpenLDAP 2.3, and your distribution decides it wants to start using OpenLDAP 2.4&#8242;s ABI/soname-incompatible client libraries instead. You upgrade, and suddenly you&#8217;ve introduced a problem for yourself if you haven&#8217;t made a habit of specifically linking against a ton of your own manually-tracked dependencies, because your libldap2-3.so.0 happens to not exist anymore. You now need to hunt down and re-link all of your dependencies, some of which may not be apparent until certain edge cases during run-time are encountered and a handful of DSO&#8217;s are loaded on demand and your programs begin mysteriously crashing because they&#8217;re trying to call externs that don&#8217;t actually exist.</p>
<p>Thankfully, we haven&#8217;t had ABI changes the size of libc5-&gt;libc6 in many years, but it&#8217;s absolutely conceivable that an upgrade can break a great many things if you rely on the fact that system libraries are going to stay one particular ABI version between releases.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Linux vs. Solaris packaging: it&#8217;s a philosophical thing by Joshua Rodman</title>
		<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/2009/12/linux-vs-solaris-packaging-its-a-philosophical-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-608</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Rodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 23:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/?p=462#comment-608</guid>
		<description>Hilariously wrong.

I&#039;ve had Linux systems seemlessly upgraded across versions of Debian for over 7 years without service interruption.  This includes production systems providing live services.  People do not reformat instead of upgrade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hilariously wrong.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had Linux systems seemlessly upgraded across versions of Debian for over 7 years without service interruption.  This includes production systems providing live services.  People do not reformat instead of upgrade.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Resilient infrastructures are only useful if they actually stay resilient by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/2010/05/resilient-infrastructures-are-only-useful-if-they-actually-stay-resilient/comment-page-1/#comment-537</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 14:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/?p=591#comment-537</guid>
		<description>So true! I&#039;ve seen so many people that are afraid to pull a fiber cable out of a live production system. What&#039;s the problem? It&#039;s redundant, right?

You need to be 100% confident that your HA features work. Otherwise, what&#039;s the point of having them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So true! I&#8217;ve seen so many people that are afraid to pull a fiber cable out of a live production system. What&#8217;s the problem? It&#8217;s redundant, right?</p>
<p>You need to be 100% confident that your HA features work. Otherwise, what&#8217;s the point of having them?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Resilient infrastructures are only useful if they actually stay resilient by Sam</title>
		<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/2010/05/resilient-infrastructures-are-only-useful-if-they-actually-stay-resilient/comment-page-1/#comment-533</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 12:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/?p=591#comment-533</guid>
		<description>The key to any kind of redundancy is to use it! Whether it becomes part of your deployment/upgrade procedure, failover is periodically forced, or something else, waiting for the &quot;big event&quot; is asking for trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key to any kind of redundancy is to use it! Whether it becomes part of your deployment/upgrade procedure, failover is periodically forced, or something else, waiting for the &#8220;big event&#8221; is asking for trouble.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Building Linux PAM modules on OpenSolaris by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/2009/06/building-linux-pam-modules-on-opensolaris/comment-page-1/#comment-521</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 16:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www-new.holyhandgrenade.org/wordpress/?p=160#comment-521</guid>
		<description>Fixed link, thanks for the heads-up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fixed link, thanks for the heads-up.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Nagios plugin: check_sa.pl by Jeff</title>
		<link>http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/2009/11/nagios-plugin-check_sa-pl/comment-page-1/#comment-520</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 16:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyhandgrenade.org/blog/?p=410#comment-520</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s sort of a quick-and-dirty thing that I wrote up to solve a particular problem at my job, but I&#039;d be happy to answer any questions about it. Email me at jeff @ thisdomain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s sort of a quick-and-dirty thing that I wrote up to solve a particular problem at my job, but I&#8217;d be happy to answer any questions about it. Email me at jeff @ thisdomain.</p>
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